Author Topic: Fliers - break in the soundwave  (Read 4032 times)

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Offline Chair126

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Fliers - break in the soundwave
« on: July 01, 2012, 01:16:55 PM »
without a lot of skyfire stuff are fliers going to really hurt thg game balance?

i dont own any of the fliers for my armies (dark eldar) and am not really interest in buying some - are there other ways to deal with them reliably? or are they just going to be one of those things...

Offline SageofTimes

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Re: Fliers - break in the soundwave
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2012, 03:04:16 PM »
You deal with them using Fortifications of various kinds (Quad Guns have Skystrike/Interceptor).  Note that Skystrike allows hitting fliers at the unit's BS & Interceptor allows you to shoot at ground targets.  Allies also help with this, but consider Fortifications auto-includes if you're dealing with Fliers (Crons especially, but BA & GKs players might grab a few as well).

Offline jasonc

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Re: Fliers - break in the soundwave
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2012, 07:38:26 PM »
Sure.

You fire your 1 quad gun at my 4 vendettas each turn and hope I don't shoot your gun first. Sounds swell lol.

Offline Kirby

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Re: Fliers - break in the soundwave
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2012, 12:31:16 PM »
fliers at the moment are an interesting enigma - their best answer is other fliers which becomes very much a game of whomever goes 2nd has a big advantage (flyer comes in, does ground damage, my flyer comes in, killsy our flyer, i have air superiority, etc.).

What wouldn't surprise me if there's a delayed FAQ for adding flakk missiles or each release adds something super anti-flyer to each army (which GW expects you to buy after you bought all their expensive fliers) which essentially renders fliers useless against such armies.

In the end though and until that time, high medium strength shots with twin-linking is your best bet.
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Offline MadmanMSU

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Re: Fliers - break in the soundwave
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2012, 04:35:30 AM »
What wouldn't surprise me if there's a delayed FAQ for adding flakk missiles or each release adds something super anti-flyer to each army (which GW expects you to buy after you bought all their expensive fliers) which essentially renders fliers useless against such armies.

Nailed it on the head. 

Although, I would add that at this point, Stormravens (particularly dual Stormraven lists) should do quite well.  Stormravens have the potential to take out 2 fliers when they come on the board with PotMS, and the fact that they can go from Zooming to Hovering makes them pretty useful for dropping payloads like DC or Termies.

I ran a dual stormraven list with DC and DC dread in one, AssTermies in the other, and it did pretty well. 

Offline jasonc

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Re: Fliers - break in the soundwave
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2012, 05:16:25 PM »
I'm more concerned that 3 units of missiles firing AA won't be enough to hurt armour 12 fliers.

15 shots/10 hits (at bs 4)

1.6 glances

1.6 pens

This before cover, and assumes that the missiles have weathered 2 rounds of shooting (though only 1 vs the fliers themselves).

Offline Kirby

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Re: Fliers - break in the soundwave
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2012, 01:26:02 PM »
Chuck in some twin-linkage and they could.

I'm feeling more and more a couple of flyers is the best way to go in terms of balance for the owner of the flyers. They can still mess up armies without flyer defenses (which will hopefully be resolved) but taking lots of them can see you without much to do at times (i.e. too much on the board, can't place; not enough targets for 3x twin-linked lascannons, etc.).
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Offline Tarrasq

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Re: Fliers - break in the soundwave
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2012, 11:06:00 PM »
If it's twin-linked you'll hit with four shots.  If your strength is high enough you may strip a hull point with a small chance to blow it up.  Thats at worst 59-ish shots with at least strength 6 to glance the best flier av of 12 with 3 hull points to death.  Even with TL Lascannons it would take an average of about 15 shots to wreck an av 12 flyer and about 20 to make it explode.  Stomravens are tough buggers.

Fliers are definitely the best way to handle fliers.

Vasara

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Re: Fliers - break in the soundwave
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2012, 11:39:15 PM »
I have now used twice my Storm Raven and found on both occasions that their manoeuvrability is a bit troublesome (didn't use hover). Zoom in 18 - 36 and no turning at the end of move. Add in their 45 degrees vertical fire arcs (+/- 22,5 degrees?).

Right now I'm not so sold on fliers.

Offline Tarrasq

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Re: Fliers - break in the soundwave
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2012, 06:50:26 AM »
Yes if you keep zooming it's unlikely you'll be hitting the same target twice depending on the range of your weapons and LOS.  But neing able to get to the enemy's backfield unimpeded to harass his more fragile units is incredibly useful.  Also fliers tend to draw large volumes of fire take off heat from elsewhere.

Offline Majinmonkey

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Re: Fliers - break in the soundwave
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2012, 01:11:06 PM »
i've used night scythes a few times and the quad gun really did some damage against them, even blew one up as interceptor shots.

if the opponent wants to spend over 200 points for a stornraven fine, used to be way too much for VA12 but it got way more durable as a flier so kudos to them. if it hovers its going down though so it'd better stay airborne.

the vendetta however is much cheaper and is pretty much built to kill other fliers and opposing quad guns, and its still got 12 front and side sooooo, yeah that is a problemo...