Author Topic: Space Wolves Tactica - 6th edition  (Read 9292 times)

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Offline NaiveOne

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Space Wolves Tactica - 6th edition
« on: July 09, 2012, 07:39:44 AM »
Just my list of notable changes and how things stand up now, though probably among codexes, Space Wolves arguably just end up with more of the same than anyone else.

USR’s:

Counter-Attack: Same as before, but leads to a sort of hilarity that when charged, Space Wolves now get Overwatch and a high chance of retaining +1A.
Acute Senses: Much less useful now, but I guess rerolling outflank is worth the cost of free.

Wargear Changes:
-Frost weapons are outlined in the FAQ, looks like no ‘Frost Maul’ or ‘Frost Spear’ though.
Wolftail Talismin: Since ‘saves’ against psychic powers traditionally stack, and only one model is needed to effect the whole unit, this adds to the already good psychic defenses if you feel you need it. For 5 pts, feel free to run around with 5+ to negate a targeted power on top of Deny the Witch and Runic weapons.

HQs
-At 2k+ Points, Space Wolves can now field up to 8 HQ choices!
Rune Priest: Congratulations, Rune Priests retain the runic weapon psychic negation (24” aura, straight 4+ to negate, 3+ on Njal), giving them one of the best psychic defenses along with Eldar and Nids). General Space Wolf powers are still good, but trading out is extremely valid, especially on the Divination tree (so much so I would even consider a master of runes upgrade just because the Primaris is guaranteed). Biomancy could be used to make the Priest a beast in combat, but generally, other armies can do that better. Living Lightning is better than just about anything in Telekinesis.

Wolf Lord:
Fairly similar, all changes that apply to characters, challenges, and AP values of new weapons apply to the Wolf Lord. Has some decent potential as a TWC lord using Look Out Sir to throw some wound allocation around. Wolf Guard Battle Leader is in similar condition.

Wolf Priest: Arguably better than most chaplains, since its preferred enemy instead of reroll to hit, and no need to be the one charging.  Preferred Enemy is now rerolls on shooting and assault, and to hit and to wound (though only on 1’s), which is nifty. Fearless is now more useful also. Unfortunately, I don’t think much in the army really benefits enough still to make it amazing (plus they are competing with Rune Priests).

Unique Characters:

Ulrick is only declared as a power weapon, so feel free to have the upgraded chaplain use a sword instead of a maul.
Tank Hunters is more useful on Logan, and his grantable Preferred Enemy is quite different.
Furious Charge is less useful, this effects Ragnar.
Auras got FAQ’d to not effect allies mostly.
Arjac forces you to use him in a challenge if possible, keep that in mind if you wanted to use a different challenge.
All in all, most special characters retain the same plusses and minuses as before 6th.

Elites
Wolf Guard:
If you want characters in ‘normal’ squads, this is the way to do it now. Overall seems like little change, except that a Wolf Guard can be given 2+ armor, and if placed in front, act as a soak for shooting wounds if you wish.

Dreadnought/Ven Dred:
Similar, but now with hullpoints to reduce durability.

Iron Priest:
Unfortunately, Wolf Techmarines don’t get the benefits of being able to enhance more cover. They do keep their other perks though, and the 2+ armor ironpriest can either soak wounds, or Look Out Sir at 4+ to pass them to wolves. Note that Cavalry treat all difficult terrain as dangerous now, so although Cyberwolves have all the benefits of Beast, their ‘leader’ could end up slowing them down or even dying.

Wolf Scouts: Acute Senses and Behind Enemy Lines being a form of outflank with reroll from Acute Senses could have made Wolf Scouts invaluable, but unfortunately, 6th also made you unable to assault out of outflank. Wolf Scouts get pretty hurt by this, since instead of arriving and ruining somethings day, they arrive and act more like a suicide squad, standing in front of the enemy after shooting. They could likely be made to work due to that high reliability but it seems overall like a downside.

Lone Wolf: Character rules, changes to weapons, and how shooting wounds are allocated allow some interesting, and overall positive, changes. Lone Wolfs can force challenges by themselves (potentially tying up an entire squad as one guy tries to kill him, or allowing him to ‘scare off’ a sergeant and fight the squishier squad without his help) As a character, bought Fenrisians can now be used with Look Out Sir on a 4+. In assault, power weapons being AP3  and no longer negating FnP make the Lone wolf much more durable when in Terminator armor.

Troops
Blood Claws:
What was already pretty bad just got even worse. Being unable to claim the +2 attacks when split charging makes Greyhunters even more the go-to option. Challenge rules do at least allow Lukas to actually do something with his pelt though.

Greyhunters: Even better than before. Rapid Fire changes increase their effective range to 24” with bolters and Plasma Guns, lack of characters by default is both a plus and a minus, and when charged, Greyhunters can Overwatch with 2 shot bolters, while still getting two close combat weapons and Counter-attack to gain full charging benefits.  Flamers and Plasma as special weapons are much more valid than before, and taking full 10 man squads as a result are slightly more appealing.

Rhinos/Razorbacks:
Although more fragile than before, and embarking/disembarking/assault are now more of a negative factor,,the edition as a whole is deadlier. Footing it is probably more valid, but I suspect Rhinos are still the go-to way to ensure foot troops can do their job. This fragility though is more a downside for Razorbacks I suspect.

Fast Attack:
Thunderwolf Cavalry:
A grabbag of plusses and minuses in 6th. Cavalry moving instead of charging 12” ensures you can cross the map and deal with targets by turn 2 in most cases (24” + D6 (w reroll) + 2D6 with reroll is a lot of distance). No first turn charge, the T5 protection against ID is now less unique to TWC, cover is less powerful but easier to get, and Terrain is now all dangerous. Wound allocation shenanigans are harder to pull off, and Storm Shields are only useful against shooting if the model is the closest one when shot. Unless you want to buy storm shields, TWC don’t have the 2+ armor protection from ‘normal’ power weapons.

Swiftclaw Bikers and Skyclaws
: Although bikers and Jump Infantry overall were improved in 6th ed, it does not change the fact that Space Wolves do it less well than any other Space Marines.

Land Speeders:
General improvements to skimmers apply, easy 5+ cover save, and ability to shoot double melta. In the context of overall weaker mech though, this could be awkward as a choice.

Fenrisian Wolves:
Like all beasts, trading 6” move and 12” charge for 12” move + 2D6 w/ reroll Charge is generally an improvement and ensures much easier ability to cross the map. Beasts now entirely ignore cover, which is also useful. Also, Fenrisians can easily be upgraded to I5 and 7LD. However, despite easier cover saves, it’s also easier for enemies to just target not-in-cover units, Overwatch shots are an actual threat due to only 6+ armor, and no 1st turn charge is allowed. Overall, similar end results as last edition, low cost and good at assault per point, but at the cost of nearly everything else. Now with more ability to position and run across the map. Stealth from more night fighting and augments from new powers may help.

Heavy Support
Long Fangs:
Everything you love is pretty much the same, except for the general weakening of cover. Lascannons are now better, but it is debatable if it can replace the reliable and cheap missile launcher (especially if this becomes the new ‘anti-flyer’ method). Most heavy weapons can now snap fire while moving. Squad Leader can move without sacrificing everyone elses shooting. Expect to keep seeing these.

Space Marine Vehicles: See other reviews. In general though, even when changes are positive in 6th, its really hard to compete with Long Fangs.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 09:52:41 AM by NaiveOne »

Offline Chair126

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Re: Space Wolves Tactica - 6th edition
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2012, 02:45:44 PM »
wht r peoples overall thoughts on wolves? i thnk they are just as good - the combination of hunters + fangs isnt really any worse and now they can ally in th/ss...

Offline snowzero

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Re: Space Wolves Tactica - 6th edition
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2012, 08:59:36 AM »
Okay Naiveone. A nice quick look at the wolves. I've got some stuff to add some of which is out of the box so will do some seperate posts.

Wolfscouts
So yes not being able to assault from reserves is a big kick in the nuts to the scouts. But lets see if we can't do something with this. You already mentioned that reserves are better for the wolves  with acute senses, but also generally reserves got more reliable with turn 2 being a 3+ to arrive instead of the 5th ed 4+. A quick calculation gives the fact that scouts now arrive 66% of the time on turn 2 and 88% chance of the time they can come on any board edge.

Let's take a quick overall look at 6th: Now 1 in 3 missions uses short table edges as the deployment zone which can give issues of reaching the enemies backfield units, especially if facing an enemy geared for long range shooting who is looking to keep as much space between themselves and the enemy.
Also what kind of units are we going to see near the back of enemy deployment zones. Troops holding an objective, Long range heavy weapons troops (longfangs, devastators, hvy weapon teams), possibly more rifle dreads (as they try to offset being more fragile by keeping out of range of the enemy) and then we have long range tanks with high front armour (predators a good example here).

So can wolfscouts handle all of these units in 1 round of shooting, which might be all they can get. I would say the answer is yes and here's why -

The damage they can do is pretty amazing for their size. As an example here's what you can shoot with only 5 wolfscouts and 1 Wolfguard.
1 Meltagun (or plasmagun)
4 Plasma Pistol shots
1 boltpistol
1 str3 ap- Blast (frag grenade) (against troops)
     or 1 str6 ap4 (krak grenade) (against vehicles)

This amount of shots and damage I would say exceeds the damage ouput of a longfang unit, when you take into account better ap than missiles and generally firing into weaker armor of vehicles or shooting at troops who would now be standing on the wrong side of cover such as walls or aegis lines.

The wolfguard above has 2 plasma pistols so any 6 to hit is a precision shot. (the general decrease in cover has boosted the effectiveness of ap1and ap2 against well everything). Also there are 4 different strength of shots here which means with the wound groups you can make the opponent roll his saves in the order you want if this is against a non vehicle unit. For example if you want to kill a character or special weapon hidden behind a couple of guys make him roll the shots that don't ignore armour first in the hope you get to put the ap2/ap1 wounds onto the model/character you want dead.

Against vehicles a meltagun and 4 plasmashots and str 6 grenade has a good chance of wrecking it, if not just exploding it from the melta or plasma. The above wolfscout unit costs 153 points. (maybe 158 if you include a meltabomb as mentioned later)

Also we have shooting at transports : If we only get crew shaken result, the troops inside can only snapfire next turn at us. If we stun them they can't shoot at all! Those shooting restrictions i'm sure even include when they disembark. Even if we wreck the transport or they disembark on their turn they can't assault us (unless assault transport like Trukk etc).

Now if there is more than 1 tank or dread we might think it's the end for us poor wolfscouts, but if we've destroyed 1 and forced another to shot at the wolfscouts instead of our tanks/tranports we've already done our job. Especially as alot of enemy tanks aren't very efficient at anti-infantry and the ones that are will need to change their facing to expose their weaker armor to our main force to shoot the wolfscouts with everything.
At this point it's probably worth mentioning about putting a meltabomb on the Wolfguard (only) as nice way to deal with tankshocks or dreads assaulting us, if the 8+2d6 gets through the armor only a 1/6 in chance that weapon destroyed result will come up (which means the wolfguard dies and Death or Glory fails) as the meltabomb is ap1 and 50% chance you will explode the tankshocking vehicle :) Against dreads same idea except you only got a 50% chance to hit in close combat and are going last, so try to make sure he survives :) For only 5 points it seems a no brainer.

With no assaulting from reserve, we will see a decrease in outflanking units (I feel sorry for the genestealers who don't even have a gun). As a consequence what we might also see is enemy backfield units without bubblewrap, or being more isolated as the threat from outflanking units decreases which can only increase the effectiveness of the wolfscouts. So I for one feel it's not time to put the wolfscouts on the shelf to gather dust and anyone that dismisses them as not viable anymore will probably suffer when they do come up against them.

Offline NaiveOne

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Re: Space Wolves Tactica - 6th edition
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2012, 08:34:15 AM »
Although you have some right ideas about how wolf scouts could be used, I just see it as too pricy for the punch delivered.

Wolf Guard may indeed take double pistols, but loses out on any other weapon (if its now a suicide squad, might as well combi-plasma to save 15 points. if you really want a weapon like a powerfist or wolf claw now, you also can use it and not care about the attack penalty.)
Up to 2 wolf scouts may indeed take a plasma pistol, but that is 30 points for likely 1 use.
The entire squad must take meltabombs at 5 pts each, it cannot be given to a single model. (otherwise that wouldn't be a bad idea at all. That could be fun on characters though to replace their gun)

at 5 man and wolf guard, its either 108 for 2 Melta shots, 132 for 2 Shots and Bomb, 113 for 'cheapest' 4 Plasma shots, 143 for 6 Plasma shots, or 158 to 6 shot beyond 1 turn.

Shooting a transport strikes me as a slightly odd choice when Greyhunters do it just as well for cheaper. Also, rules seem to make it fairly clear that if passengers disembark, they are free to shoot, only counting as having moved and being unable to assult, despite shaken or stunned results (If you destroy the transport though, they could just charge you off-turn). If the enemy has heavy tanks in the backlines this could be worth it, but that seems like a dangerous assumption to be making.

For me right now its an issue that Greyhunters compare much better than scouts, as they can do a lot of what scouts do, at a similar price, and without the issues of being more vulnerable. Being unable to assault into the potential safety of combat, or ruining multiple vehicles just really hurts. The point investment to make a 6 man squad of scouts a threat that requires dealing with could buy a full squad of Greyhunters or Long Fangs, which are more of a real threat than a suicide squad.

I suspect they can be made to work, and their ability to be a threat of 'we can arrive anywhere, so no leaving any part of your army alone' is unmatched, but overall, I think they lose out.

Offline WestRider

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Re: Space Wolves Tactica - 6th edition
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2012, 02:35:27 PM »
Shooting a transport strikes me as a slightly odd choice when Greyhunters do it just as well for cheaper. Also, rules seem to make it fairly clear that if passengers disembark, they are free to shoot, only counting as having moved and being unable to assult, despite shaken or stunned results (If you destroy the transport though, they could just charge you off-turn).

Note that Disembarking prohibits a Unit from Charging "in their subsequent Assault Phase". This means even if you Wreck it in your Turn, they can't Charge in their next Turn.

If you cause it to Explode, tho, the Models are simply placed rather than Disembarking, so they can still Charge. Unless you've got a plan to deal with the passengers after, Glancing a Transport to death is significantly safer.
Anything taken to its logical extreme is depressing, if not carcinogenic.
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Offline snowzero

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Re: Space Wolves Tactica - 6th edition
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2012, 09:56:44 AM »
Ok should have clarified that the meltabomb would have been on the Wolfguard!
Sure greyhunters shoot transports better, but it's not often they destroy one on turn 2 hiding at the back. And it's still not clear if passengers suffering from shaken and stunned results just ignore these affects if they disembark (guessing they will or it just makes transports even worse)

Also thinking that with all games starting with nightfighting 50% of the time, that turn 1 shooting can be very limiting so getting as many shots to count from turn 2 onwards will be crucial. Perhaps wolfscouts might also help achieve the firstblood victory point that many games use.

As a simple test, next time you're playing with spacewolves, take a look at the start of the game and look at the oppositions deployment and think if scouts would have a great position to come in and wreck something important or start to damage his units on a flank while getting cover themselves or even just thinking how he would have redeployed knowing you had scouts and if this would have been favourable to you.
Will do a post with thoughts on another unit soon.

Mechanium

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Re: Space Wolves Tactica - 6th edition
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2012, 05:22:40 PM »
I think the scouts are still fine, just rather limited in scope. So far everyone I've played against has pushed up with their troops, meaning the inability to assault wouldn't matter, as they're just going to be pointing meltaguns and a krak grenade at the rear of a tank line.
I've seen a lot less hanging back and letting the razorback/chimera do the dirty work, instead they're moving early on so the troops can get somewhere before my longfangs wreck them.

It'll hurt a lot against gunline guard though, and the lack of ability to clear off their objective in The Emporer's Will is pretty lame.

I've switched to Lone Wolves in 6th though, playing walking grey hunters like loganwing, using the lone wolves to come in and save the day for anyone who gets tangled, if I get around to making Thunderwolves for that role I could see the scouts coming back in, but not too likely due to points.

Offline snowzero

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Re: Space Wolves Tactica - 6th edition
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2012, 07:58:24 AM »
Also realised from the FAQ that the wolfscouts dont replace their boltpistol with the plasma pistol, they get it in addition so you can have duel pistols for two of your scouts, and your wolfguard it's a nice little bonus and 'cinematic' :)

Offline Rakaydos

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Re: Space Wolves Tactica - 6th edition
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2012, 08:28:15 PM »
Also a note on the Iron priest, that also applies to Lone wolves and wollf lords.

Beasts get move through cover, which allows your SQUAD to ignore dangerous terrain and gives you an extra die in difficult. Cavalry (that is, anyone on a Thunderwolf) treats difficult as Dangerous.
Therefore, any thunderwolf model in the same squad as a beast (fenwolf/cyberwolf) ignores difficult terrain completely. Lone wolves just get to move as if having Move through Cover.

Offline WestRider

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Re: Space Wolves Tactica - 6th edition
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2012, 05:18:56 AM »
Sorry, but that doesn't work. Move Through Cover has two parts. The part about rolling an extra d6 for Difficult Terrain Tests is an "at least one Model" ability, and so it transfers to the Unit.

The part about ignoring Dangerous Terrain, tho, is a separate sentence, and uses "any Model with" phrasing, so it only works for the individual Models that have MTC.
Anything taken to its logical extreme is depressing, if not carcinogenic.
- Ursula K. LeGuin