Author Topic: Dark Eldar Troops in 6th  (Read 4316 times)

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Mechanium

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Dark Eldar Troops in 6th
« on: July 25, 2012, 02:26:18 PM »
So with the sweeping changes in 6th, so many good things happened for Dark Eldar, Scourges went from cool, to actually good, beasts went from good to better, jetbikes might be worth their points now, Razorwings and Voidravens both look like passable if slightly over costed fliers.

So many good things, good thing 6th didn't makes troops more important, while at the same time turning light transports into total garbage.

Oh, oh, welp there goes the core of the army and how to actually win the game.


So any suggestions on how to work with out over priced troops choices, out only BB is Craftworld Eldar, so good scoring troops aren't coming from that direction either.

Wyches seem to enjoy some of the changes, the gernade rules specifically have worked out in their favor, but I've found 5 lady Haywire hunters might take out a transport then get stranded, and 10 is too much of an investment to leave standing around out in the open.

Kabablites firepower is still lacking for the price tag, I've tried 20 with 2 cannons, a blaster and the duke (in an ADL, Duke on Quad Gun), and it still felt pretty lackluster. 10 in raiders get demeched and stranded really quick, while still not doing much.

I've not used large Wrack squads yet, anyone care to comment? Small ones do what they always did (bring a venom) but that's not much now.
I've also not used the Helion troops anyone care to comment on those in 6th? Are they better without The Baron in them at all? Baron really wants to kick it with Beast Packs now.

The big bright light I'm seeing is that Venoms aren't as bad off as most people make them out to be, with 25% cover they're almost impossible not to hide, or force an oblique shot on, but that still counts on there being ruins, which I know not every environment has.
   

Offline Kreios

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Re: Dark Eldar Troops in 6th
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2012, 03:10:35 PM »
Craftworld Eldar Troops are underperformers most of the time, but Dire Avengers are actually comparable to Tactical Marines in terms of per-point efficiency on offense and defense (shocking, I know); they're very cheap for their their armour and firepower, but they can suffer from the 18" range on their guns, and they can barely scratch AV10.  Still, Dark Eldar should be able to cover the tank-busting duty, so try out this package to bolster your scoring units:

93pts Farseer w/Prescience, Singing Spear, Runes of Warding
120pts 10 Dire Avengers
120pts 10 Dire Avengers
150pts 3 D-Cannons

Don't upgrade the Dire Avengers, and don't give them a transport; both routes are a huge waste of points.  They're there to provide cheap bodies, decent midfield threat bubbles, and claim objectives in turns 4-5.  Keep them in cover if you can, or else present more immediate threats from the rest of your army.  Speaking of threats, the D-Cannons are extremely deadly (especially with Prescience), and harder to kill than anything in the Eldar or DE codices, place them far forward as a midfield anchor for the Dire Avengers.  Target enemy squads/transports with the D-Cannons, then rip into them with the Dire Avengers.

Any other army with better Troops might consider the same Eldar package, but with one less Dire Avenger squad.

Offline Majinmonkey

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Re: Dark Eldar Troops in 6th
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2012, 05:22:28 PM »
"oh, why we'd be tickled pink to help you raid those innocent mon'keigh planets my Commorraghian cousin, oh and could you perhaps send over one of those delightful haemunculi? Oh he wants to upgrade us a little bit?
Let me tell you something, battle brother, I'll help you all right, over my cold, broken, spirit stone."

fluff aside, that sounds cool.
That or the opposite, rather than moving dire avengers forward, let your army go , its pretty good at that.
Perhaps guardians with scatter lasers or missile launchers could hooks your back field objectives and leave the quad gun to a warlock.

At less than 2k, I liked the shrouded big squads of wytches I saw you use, and putting warriors on a back field objective isn't so bad cause its mostly close range fire(and long fangs) you'll need to worry about.

Offline Kirby

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Re: Dark Eldar Troops in 6th
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2012, 06:02:46 PM »
For Dark Eldar it's really going to be about quantity rather than quality of Troops.

I.e. 6x5x Wracks + 2x15x Guardians or something. Not exactly expensive and you can bring eight transports with those but your opponent isn't going to be able to lol them off the table at least.
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Offline Kreios

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Re: Dark Eldar Troops in 6th
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2012, 07:52:27 AM »
For Dark Eldar it's really going to be about quantity rather than quality of Troops.
I.e. 6x5x Wracks + 2x15x Guardians or something. Not exactly expensive and...

I see where you're coming from with the Wracks, but T4 an Feel No Pain carry a high opportunity cost compared to Kabalite Warriors.  Compare the following:

50pts Haemonculus
300pts 6 x 5 Wracks

50pts Haemonculus
270pts 6 x 5 Kabalite Warriors

For a discount of 30pts, the Warriors get 6 24" anti-infantry threat bubbles for 60 Poisoned shots.   Meanwhile, the Wracks have nothing but melee, where their poison usually hits on 4s compared to the Kabalite shooting hitting on 3s for a few turns.  For another 90pts, you could put a Blaster is each Kabalite Warrior squad, trading 12 poisoned shots for 6 S8 AP2 lances, all at only 60pts more than the Haemonculus + 30 Wracks.  The Wracks are tougher, but they don't have enough impact on the battle.

Similarly, Kabalite Warriors are superior to Guardians; they have better stats, double range, a gun that scales with the toughness of its primary targets, cheaper anti-vehicle options.  The reason for taking Dire Avengers is that they're better on the front lines due to their 4+ save, while still being very dangerous to their cost.  They even have a nice edge over Kabalite Warriors against T3 models and light vehicles that wander too close, letting the Kabalite Warriors tackle the tougher targets.  The idea is to screen the Kabalite Warriors with the Dire Avengers.

...you can bring eight transports with those but your opponent isn't going to be able to lol them off the table at least.

Rhinos are good transports because they're dirt cheap for what they do: move models into midfield, then become annoying screens/focus fire enablers.  Their passengers tend to be relatively tough, so exploding a Rhino isn't a big deal.  Raiders and Venoms, on the other hand, are fragile for their cost, and so are their passengers, making both transports into deathtraps; those transports just might die to the laughter you mentioned.  Furthermore, the same fragility for cost makes them poor choices for screening/focus fire because they're so easy to remove and carry a high opportunity cost in terms of points.  It's better to have many more units of Troops than transports under these conditions.  The one exception I can think of is dumping an Incubi deathstar into your opponent's army.

Eldar Wave Serpents are the middle ground; they're tough, well-armed, and expensive.  They cost too much to have a dedicated midfield taxi/blocking role (especially with the new 3+ to hit while moving), and since they aren't assault vehicles, they're only good for delivering shooting units to the front lines.  Fire Dragons are the only Eldar unit whose damage output justifies a transport.  Dire Avengers don't need to rush past midfield most of the time, and they're cheap enough that you're better off spending points on more Avengers than a Wave Serpent.


2000pts Sample List 1 (1 Primary, 1 Ally)

Primary Detachment
50pts Haemonculus
168pts 4 Kabalite Warriors w/4 Blasters, Raider
168pts 4 Kabalite Warriors w/4 Blasters, Raider
130pts 10 Kabalite Warriors w/Blaster, Dark Lance
60pts 5 Kabalite Warriors w/Blaster
60pts 5 Kabalite Warriors w/Blaster
60pts 5 Kabalite Warriors w/Blaster
60pts 5 Kabalite Warriors w/Blaster
60pts 5 Kabalite Warriors w/Blaster
130pts 5 Scourges w/2 Haywire Blasters
130pts 5 Scourges w/2 Haywire Blasters
105pts Ravager
105pts Ravager
105pts Ravager
125pts Imperial Bastion w/Quad Gun

Ally Detachment
93pts Farseer w/Runes of Warding, Prescience, Singing Spear
120pts 10 Dire Avengers
120pts 10 Dire Avengers
150pts 3 D-Cannons

Comments:
-I opted for Raiders over Venoms due to the huge amount of anti-infantry firepower already in the list.
-Add the Haemonculus to the large Kabalite Warrior unit and put them on the roof of the Imperial Bastion to crew the Quad Gun, and occupy the middle level with a small Kabalite Warrior unit.
-Deploy the D-Cannons (with attached Farseer) and all non-garrisoned Troops forward (in cover if possible) to establish board control. 
-Screen Kabalite Warriors with Dire Avengers and advance toward forward objectives.
-Use scenery to allow the Kabalite Trueborn and Ravagers to sneak up on vehicles; if you're going second and scenery is sparse, reserve these units.
-Have the Scouges dart between scenery in the midfield to finish of damaged squads and strip hull points.

Issues:
-Manticores ruin this list.  However, they already ruin Dark Eldar in general, so it's not like I have to worry about anything extra.
-Fliers.  Aside from the Quad Gun, this list has solution for fliers except a pile of Snap Shots from all the Blasters and Dark Lances.  Vendetta's don't worry me too much, though, since their high quality fire will be directed at cheap, fragile models (making them less efficient).  What does worry me are Nightscythes and fliers firing a ton of 5" blast missiles when they enter the board (like the Voidraven, ironically).

Now let's see what happens with 2 FOCs in 2000pts.

2000pts Sample List 2 (2 Primary, 2 Ally)

Primary Detachment 1
60pts Haemonculus w/Liquifier Gun
60pts 5 Kabalite Warriors w/Blaster
60pts 5 Kabalite Warriors w/Blaster
105pts Ravager
105pts Ravager
185pts Voidraven Bomber w/4 Shatterfield Missiles
125pts Imperial Bastion w/Quad Gun

Primary Detachment 2
60pts Haemonculus w/Liquifier Gun
60pts 5 Kabalite Warriors w/Blaster
60pts 5 Kabalite Warriors w/Blaster
105pts Ravager
105pts Ravager
185pts Voidraven Bomber w/4 Shatterfield Missiles
125pts Imperial Bastion w/Quad Gun

Ally Detachment 1
90pts Farseer w/Runes of Warding, Prescience
120pts 10 Dire Avengers
100pts 2 D-Cannons

Ally Detachment 2
70pts Autarch
120pts 10 Dire Avengers
100pts 2 D-Cannons

Comments:
-Split D-Cannon battery (and added one gun) to improve fire control; D-Cannons are still placed in forward positions, with Dire Avengers nearby.
-Attach Farseer to one D-Cannon battery, and the Autarch to one of the rooftop Kabalite Warrior squads.
-Attach Haemonculi to Avengers or the rooftop Kabalite Warriors; the latter is probably a better option because they can leave the building to Liquify Deep Strikers, possibly leaving the Pain Token with the Kabalite Warriors.
-MUCH better anti-flier from 2 Quad Guns and 2 Voidravens.
-Reserve the Ravagers unless you go first.
-More reliant on reserves for protection if it goes 2nd, but the Autarch makes the subsequent alpha strike more reliable.
-Kabalite Warriors crew the Imperial Bastions until the squads occupying the middle floor get out to sprint toward objectives.
-No transports of any kind feels very strange, but the huge amount of firepower in the list allow more footslogging without fear of attack.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 08:10:28 AM by Kreios »

Offline Kirby

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Re: Dark Eldar Troops in 6th
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2012, 03:50:56 PM »
a reply finally ^^.

The Wracks example was an example - spam Troops + durability. Taking Warriors with better firepower but lower durability is an option as well. The key is always going to be to bring as many Troops as possible though to give your opponent a lot of targets so some are likely to survive. With Allies that's generally 8 choices.

The problem without transports though becomes your Troops are easier to shoot from Turn 1 - with vehicles, even if you're not inside them, there are more targets and obstructions your opponent has to deal with. Yes, if things explode Xenos suffer more but explosions are a little bit less likely. Yes 60-70 points is more than a Rhino but they still provide good firepower and have defenses to overcome their fragility (i.e. nightshields, cover saves, etc.).
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Offline Wyrmnax

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Re: Dark Eldar Troops in 6th
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2012, 09:41:50 AM »
And lets not forget the amount of firepower Venons bring to the table by themselves.

They are fragile, yes. But a Single venon brings as much firepower as the warrior squad it carries.

And single lance raiders provide a problem for the oponents, especially when you are bringing 6 inside troops. It carries a dark lance, so its potentialy dangerous and cannot be ignored. However, it carries a single dark lance, so its not really all that threathening. Its different from a empty rhino that will block but hardly ever do any damage to you.

Mechanium

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Re: Dark Eldar Troops in 6th
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2012, 07:04:08 PM »
The other trick I've learned from playing against guard in 5th, but now against everyone is that a lot of the time its better to leave the transports empty. You're not using their points very well but it basically doubles your number of targets on the board turn 1, which doubles you're survivablity.