Author Topic: Heldrake Woes  (Read 259910 times)

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Offline MadmanMSU

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Heldrake Woes
« on: December 15, 2012, 06:15:18 PM »
I have a problem with baleflamers.  Let me explain.

I play in a local environment that, while friendly, is competitive.  Since the new Chaos codex has come out, I play against Chaos more than any other army.  Because of this, my opponents have been using Heldrakes extensively.  I'm at the point now where it's not uncommon for them to field 2 of these in a normal 1850 game.  One I can deal with, but two?  This is getting to be a problem for me.

I have three armies that I run:  Grey Knights, Necrons, and Blood Angels.  My latest army that I have been fielding is the following:

Bastion with Icarus Lascannon
Coteaz on top with three Jokaeros and 3 Acolytes

Psyker Inquisitor inside with three plasma cannon servitors and 2 Acolytes

2x 10 GKSS with 2 Psycannons in a Rhino

2x Dreadknight with Greatsword and Incinerator and teleporter

Psyfledread

5x Terminators with Psycannon

Overall, this list has been working pretty well for me.  I played against a new guy who used two Heldrakes in his list on the Relic mission, and lost.  I attribute the loss mostly to mistakes that I made which I think I can improve my play on, but it still really got to me how much damage his heldrakes were able to do to my army.  I actually finished the game with the Relic inside my Bastion, but he flamed all my troops to death and won because he had first blood and slay the warlord.

I'm open to suggestions to change my list, but I really would like suggestions for dealing with Heldrake spam.  I looooove my coteaz with his unit that has 4 twin linked lascannons, and the three twin linked plasma cannons below him are super effective.  But these damn heldrakes just chew through my troops, and it's starting to drive me insane. 

I've done the math, and it takes a ludicrous amount of Psyfledread shots to put one of these turkeys down....same thing for lascannon shots.  It's almost not worth even shooting at them, but they kill 3-7 guys on every flame shot. 



Offline Tarrasq

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Re: Heldrake Woes
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2012, 08:05:06 PM »
One major bit about the Heldrake, its a little bit of rules lawyering, but the Baleflamer cannot allocate wounds to models out of LOS of the weapon.  The Out of Sight section is what's coming up here, you cannot allocate a wound to a model no one in the unit has line of sight to.  You can hit and wound but you can't allocate these wounds to models out of LOS (GW is terrible at writing rules yay).  This applies to vehicle's weapons as well.  The Baleflamer is by default hull mounted so it can only allocate to 22.5 on either side of the weapon (45 in total) and the same goes for elevation.  Keep this in mind as it limits what the Heldrake can do dramatically.  It also gives you the option of hiding troops behind terrain that is taller than the models (like say the Bastion) limiting what the Heldrake can take out even further.  Do it right and the Heldrake can only vector strike you before it passes.

As far as the list goes, you're a bit light on troops/infantry.  Remember you're going to hit the 5 objective scenarios and you want to be able to control a majority of those making 3-4 troop options necessary unless you have a good deal of denial units.  Your list has 7 denial units (everybody but the rhinos and the psyrifleman) however two of those (Coteaz's unit and the Inquisitor's unit) aren't going to be leaving that bastion if they can help it and are too slow to reliably deny any but the closest objectives.  Similar problem with the Termies.  Leaving the Strikes and the Dreadknights as your only denial units.  Assuming your Dreadknights can deny two objectives and your strikes are holding two more, that still leaves one objective wide open in most cases giving you're opponent 3 almost guaranteed points.  I'd really try to fit in another strike squad at least.

You could load up a Stormraven for anti-air if there are that many Heldrakes in your meta.  Baleflamer Heldrakes can't really dent a SR but almost every other flyer will give the SR some trouble.

Offline MadmanMSU

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Re: Heldrake Woes
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2012, 04:55:09 AM »
I've pondered the issue, and there are several solutions.  This is the one I'm going with for my game on Sunday.

Bastion with Icarus Lascannon
Coteaz on top with three Jokaeros and 3 Acolytes

Psyker Inquisitor inside with three plasma cannon servitors and 2 Acolytes

2x Dreadknight with Greatsword and teleporter
--One has heavy incinerator

20x Terminators with 4xPsycannon
--8x Swords
--8x Halberds
--4x Hammers

1840 pts, leaving 10 pts for I'm thinking 3 Servo-skulls

At first blush, it looks like I'm simply switching to 2+ armor to deny the Baleflamer suitable targets, but that's not the whole reasoning behind my switch.  One of the things I've noticed in 6th edition (at least in my local meta) is that there are a whole lot less targets for mid-strength shooting.  At most, I see two rhino's in a game, with maybe a dreadnought class AV12.  so I'm dropping the Psyfledread altogether and relying on the Psycannons/Jokaeros for ranged rhino busting.  However, the GKSS have two problems: 1) they need to be protected inside a rhino which leads to 2) they can't move to get the full effect from their psycannons.  By switching to Termies, I'm actually increasing the amount of Dakka I fire each turn because they can fire on the move, and it's cheaper than a full GKSS in a rhino (225 vs. 260, with the caveat that 5 terms are worth 10 GKSS in a strict marine vs. marine shooting scenario).  So, in that sense I'm saving points and putting out more shots at the expense of mobility.  Now, I could be risky and Deepstrike the termies which is why I'm taking the 3 servo-skulls with my last 10 points, but I'm keeping that more as an additional option than the outright strategy. 

In addition, I've dropped one incinerator from a DK, which means each DK will have a specialized role.  The one with the flamer will prioritize squishy targets and infantry, while the one without will be a backfield harasser to get those dakka preds and forge/maulerfiends/dreadnaughts that sit in rear.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2012, 04:57:16 AM by MadmanMSU »